Trish Speaks on the "Pitch to Scale" Podcast

inndox CEO and Co-Founder, Trish Mackie-Smith, recently spoke with Samar McHeileh from the podcast “Pitch to Scale: Female Focused Angel Investing“.

In the wake of some of the most devastating building disasters in Australia, it has never been more important to ensure all information about your property is captured and stored securely to ensure your asset is kept safe and sound.

Trish talks about how inndox is revolutionising the way Construction Companies, Property Developers, Builder and Property Owners capture, manage and share property information from planning to completion and transfer to future owners.

One of inndox’s key mission Trish Mackie-Smith is at the forefront of the unfair systems and practices some homeowners are faced with. inndox helps both developers meet their legislative requirement with regards to the documentation supplied at completion and also property owners to be confident they are getting a quality build.

Listen to the full Podcast here or read the transcript below.

If you would like to know more about inndox, please contact us or Request a Demo today!

Transcript

Samar McHeileh: Welcome to the Pitch To Scale Podcast where we share the secrets from Australia's first and only angel group that specifically invests in female led startups. In this series we profile our scale angels and the amazing female founders we meet. Join me your host Samar McHeileh to explore this inspiring and thrilling investment class that offers the opportunity to shape the tomorrow we believe in.

In the wake of some of the most devastating building disasters in Australia, former property lawyer and co-founder of Australia's most awarded building consultancy, Trish Mackie-Smith is at the forefront of the unfair systems and practices some homeowners are faced with. From Buyer Beware law Trisha's campaigning policymakers to change through to shonky building certificates. Trish was compelled to help solve this problem and created inndox. inndox is the digital logbook for your property.

It is a secure app that holds everything about a property from design through to appliance warranties in the one place. inndox is revolutionising the way property developers and construction companies capture, manage and share property information from planning to completion and transfer to future owners. Trish shares her story and passion to make buying the biggest asset of your life transparent and a great experience for everyone.

Trish, thanks for joining us today.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Hi Samar. Thank you very much for having me.

Samar McHeileh: I believe there's a congratulations in order.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Yes. Well thank you. I guess you're referring to the HIA Women In Business Building and Construction award?

Samar McHeileh: I sure am. So tell us a bit about what exactly the award was and what you've won.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Well, HIA stands for Housing Industry Australia and the award was specifically for women in building and construction and the category was for business development professional and I was nominated and I was surprised by that, but grateful. So I went ahead and applied and just detailed my innovation, which is inndox and how it will improve the industry, the property industry and make it more transparent. And I think being a female leader doing innovation and especially digital innovation in an industry that isn't so digital, I think that assisted me in winning.

Samar McHeileh: Fantastic. Well done.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Thank you.

Samar McHeileh: Especially in property as well. I believe it's a fairly male dominated space as well.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Extremely. Yes, it is.

Samar McHeileh: So tell us about your business inndox and this is why you won this fantastic award.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Well inndox is, basically it's a digital logbook for property, just like you have a logbook for your car with all the service history that transfers from owner to owner. inndox does that for property but it's not static. It's an app and it's interactive and it's for the entire life cycle so that it begins from the property developer or builder all the way through the life cycle and then transfers to those next owners.

Samar McHeileh: I believe, I've read that you and your husband were surfing when you decided to make this idea come to life. Where did the idea come from?

Trish Mackie-Smith: That's right. We were having a little holiday, which is pretty rare because we've been working together in a building consultancy for 18 years. I was a property lawyer prior to that and Andrew, my co-founder and husband, he was a builder and certifier. So we came together and we've been helping mainly buyers of property to make a more informed decision when they go to buy property and we're finding the same problems arising over and over again and just, we were getting a bit frustrated as to why is this happening, the same problems?

Trish Mackie-Smith: There has to be a better way. And I guess when we were relaxed surfing together, that was the time that we could just really reflect on some of the issues and we thought, why don't we look further into these issues and maybe come up with a better way. And so I made a pact that I would do some research into the laws which aren't beneficial for buyers with the buyer beware law and also to look to technology. I thought perhaps that could assist in helping things be more transparent.

Samar McHeileh: And these problems were coming from your clients. So this is not yours and Andrew's first venture you had your ... the business that you were working in.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Yes.

Samar McHeileh: And that's something that you guys started together and have you since exited that business?

Trish Mackie-Smith: I'm working full time in inndox now. And Andrew is part time really. He likes to continue with his consultancy. And that helps with our network, bringing customers to inndox as well. So at this stage, that's how it's working.

Samar McHeileh: You launched in 2017 but it really kind of grew legs in 2018 when you became CEO, I believe you had to overcome public speaking as a-

Trish Mackie-Smith: Yes.

Samar McHeileh: Definitely pitching to investors. I find that hard to believe because you're very well spoken.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Oh, thank you. I've had a bit of practice lately, but it is still something that I don't love doing, but I realize it's necessary. So I'm happy to do it now.

Samar McHeileh: What's the size of the inndox opportunity?

Trish Mackie-Smith: Well, because it does have global application, there are no barriers to entry into other markets because it applies to all types of property, that residential, industrial, commercial and to both brand new and existing buildings, the opportunity is massive. There are 2.5 billion properties in the world that could use inndox, but right now we're focused on brand new buildings and that's our market entry.

Samar McHeileh: You've got quite a few customers on board so far.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Yes. We are across three states of Australia and that's growing. So we recently received a grant from the Queensland Government to assist in commercialising inndox and so that's been fantastic to have that support from government and we've been doing a regional tour of late all around Queensland and we will go into other States shortly. So, we're reaching a wide audience now.

Samar McHeileh: Why are you uniquely positioned to solve this problem?

Trish Mackie-Smith: Well, I am purpose-driven. I'm passionate about making a difference. I really want to improve transparency in the industry and make it fairer. So I have domain expertise, I know intimately the problems that need solving. And I am committed to, if anybody's going to do it, I think it's me and my team.

Samar McHeileh: About your team, obviously this is a digital, is a tech platform and application. You don't have that background, but you knew that this is what was needed to solve this problem in providing all your paperwork online, how was it finding your tech partners? You've got an internal work development.

Trish Mackie-Smith: We do have an internal dev lead and some contractors as well, but it's not easy to find a really good dev and especially when you don't have that background. So a lot of trust has to go into the person that you employ and to take advice from mentors, people that have been there before. So, that's really helped us find good tech people.

Samar McHeileh: You did an accelerated program with BlueChilli, I believe, to help sort of set this up and they are an investor as part of that. What ... I believe that's where you got one of your main mentors that is still advisor, that is part of your business.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Definitely. Brett's been someone who has provided a lot of good advice in times when we didn't think we were going anywhere. He was fantastic providing that moral support and mentorship. So he's still there for us and we're very grateful.

Samar McHeileh: What are the steps that you took in terms of finding your dev person and maybe perhaps a couple of mistakes along the way?

Trish Mackie-Smith: Well, we did make a mistake after the BlueChilli Accelerator. We thought we would outsource and went through an agency and we thought that it would be cheaper but, in fact, no, it's not cheaper. It's a lot more expensive, you have less control and we wasted a lot of time. So, that's something that I learned. It's better to have someone who understands your purpose, wants to be involved, is committed and there for you day in, day out. So that's why we went ahead with the more traditional recruiting process. And we interviewed quite a few before we ... and we tested as well.

Samar McHeileh: And did you have your advisors help setting up those testing?

Trish Mackie-Smith: Yes, we did. BlueChilli was really supportive and helpful.

Samar McHeileh: Tell us a bit about your background. So you grew up in, is it Brisbane or Gold coast?

Trish Mackie-Smith: Brisbane.

Samar McHeileh: Brisbane. That's right. Where did you go to school? Who were your friends? Why are you the woman that you are today?

Trish Mackie-Smith: Well, it's a long story. I grew up in Brisbane and I went to an all girls school, Catholic school, St Rita's College. I didn't really know what I wanted to do, so I followed my friends and went nursing and worked at the Royal Brisbane Hospital, became a registered nurse and I did enjoy that, helping people. But I knew that I wanted to do more. I wanted to see more of the world, so I became a flight attendant and travelled and, but I got a bit bored doing that. So I decided to study and got into Sydney Uni and studied law and did well there. Got into a top tier law firm and worked there for a number of years in Sydney, but found that my true calling was in property law. I really enjoyed that and then when I got married to a builder, we thought it was a match made in heaven that we could partner in business as well.

Samar McHeileh: What did you learn the most in, which top tier firm was it?

Trish Mackie-Smith: Freehills.

Samar McHeileh: Oh nice. What was your biggest learning there? Why was it property law that drew you to your dream?

Trish Mackie-Smith: Well, I worked in banking and finance and I also worked in funds management and I learned a lot, but it just ... I'm not so much a numbers person and I really understood property and I wanted to be a property investor and so I now have a number of investments in property. It was just something that I understood and-

Samar McHeileh: And were personally, investing.

Trish Mackie-Smith: And personally I could relate to. So for those reasons.

Samar McHeileh: Who do you think has been instrumental in your success so far?

Trish Mackie-Smith: I think I have to say this, my husband, but it is true. It is true. He's my co-founder and partner. Look, there's been times when it's been difficult working with your partner, but without him and his support and his commitment, he's 100% committed to making this work as well. So because I have to pour so much energy and time and emotion into this, you need someone there beside you saying, you're doing well, keep going.

Samar McHeileh: And I believe you encourage each other.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Oh, we do. Totally.

Samar McHeileh: Being co-founders, what's your big hairy, audacious vision and goal for this company and what does success look like for inndox?

Trish Mackie-Smith: Well, the big hairy audacious goal would be that inndox will be the global standard for property records and that when people go to purchase a property they will be saying where is the inndox? That the catch cry will be knowing inndox keeps you safe and sound. And the goal would be that within the next five years we will have over a million users. So, that's the big goal.

Samar McHeileh: When I'm looking through your media and the website, you're also an avid petitioner. So this is a true passion of yours in terms of consumer protection, given the Buyer Beware law that's currently in play. But I believe it's different in the ACT in the UK.

Trish Mackie-Smith: It is.

Samar McHeileh: And you are fighting for that to kind of play out in the rest of the country.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Yes.

Samar McHeileh: Can you explain what law are you in change of? So Buyer Beware is getting ... is changing to solid disclosure I believe is what will ... what you're looking for.

Trish Mackie-Smith: That's the trend. It's definitely a trend happening all over the world. The buyer beware law dates way back to the middle ages. It's an archaic law. It's there to protect the seller only. And it's about time. There's consumer protection for all other products that you buy. But when it comes to the home, the property that's the most expensive, most important asset you'll ever buy there is no consumer. And I think that's outrageous and I think it leads to injustice.

Trish Mackie-Smith: And so yes, I'm in other parts of the world, including here in Australia, the ACT, they have moved forward with seller disclosure so that the seller provides all the information upfront so that the buyer knows exactly what they're buying. They know the truth about the building that they're buying. And I think that's how it should be. Why isn't it so? And I've since discovered that there is resistance.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Certain industry players don't want change. They are happy with the status quo. So I went ahead anyway and I launched this petition and I had the support of a state minister. It's still in parliament and there is a seller disclosure certificate coming. But in the meantime there's still the buy beware law in place in most parts of Australia. So look, it's going to happen one day, but in the meantime there's inndox and this can help people I believe see or do their due diligence more effectively.

Samar McHeileh: You've got a blog on your website that I've had read through and is part of inndox also educating buyers of what they should have in their ... no longer in the Manila folder or the USB stick, but on their app, what they actually should be aware of when they're buying a property or whether it's new or not?

Trish Mackie-Smith: Yes. Absolutely.

Samar McHeileh: And you explained things like warranties and all sorts of things that perhaps buyers are not overly aware of. Do you think there's an education gap there?

Trish Mackie-Smith: Definitely.

Samar McHeileh: Do you want to play a role in that?

Trish Mackie-Smith: Well, yes. I have been hopefully trying to get the message out there that people need more awareness about what they are buying. And you can't just assume even brand new buildings, 70% of new homes have major defects. And that's a concern, especially with this law because once you've bought that property you are stuck with it. And that can lead to financial ruin for some. So yes, I'm trying to educate people about what's needed and the media actually has exposed some of the failings in the industry and they're actually calling it an industry crisis.

Trish Mackie-Smith: And that's, with the flammable cladding leading to fires that have happened in Sydney and Melbourne and the Opal Tower with the cracking dodgy building practices are happening and people are spending their life savings by buying defective buildings and it's so wrong and it seems that the federal government is taking action. In fact, a report was commissioned in 2017, it's called the building confidence report. And 24 recommendations were made.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Some of those have already become law and this is to help the industry with the trades and or their practices. But two of those recommendations are about having a centralised data place of all the building records that can be accessed by all the relevant parties pre and post construction and be accessible to future buyers. So this is what inndox does and therefore I think the timing is quite good for us.

Samar McHeileh: inndox is a record platform, a data management system essentially.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Yes.

Samar McHeileh: Do you validate perhaps the problem with Opal or a few of those even locally let alone overseas, the shocking building, cladding issue that happened in London because it can actually be deadly at the end of the day.

Trish Mackie-Smith: It claimed 72 lives.

Samar McHeileh: Yeah, it's terrific.

Trish Mackie-Smith: It is.

Samar McHeileh: Do you validate certificates and information and records that are put into the platform?

Trish Mackie-Smith: We're not policing what is put there by the property developer or construction company. They are usually the reputable ones that want to use inndox because they want to prove to the buyer, reassure the buyer, give them confidence that they have complied with all the building regulations and that all the warranties are there. All the approvals, the certificates, the plans, the specifications, the warranties are all there for the buyer. So, it's those ... there are good builders and property developers out there and they're the ones that see this as a good way.

Trish Mackie-Smith: It's a marketing tool for them actually to help with the selling of their properties. And especially when there is a bit of a PR crisis going on, inndox can help them.

Samar McHeileh: They've got all their records in place.

Trish Mackie-Smith: All the records are there and the warranties are there as well. And the ... what the owner ... It's actually an owner management system that they get. So they get alerts for warranties and maintenance, regular maintenance. And it's a way for them to stay in contact with the initial builder or property developer in times, where there may be issues.

Samar McHeileh: How does it make you feel? Because, I can see you get really passionate about this.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Oh, yes.

Samar McHeileh: So how do you feel when this injustice is going on and it sounds like there's some really significant steps that are being made?

Trish Mackie-Smith: Yes. Well, I think a property lawyer, I've been very disappointed in our law and frustrated and I think it's unbelievable that this law has continued for so long. But I know why. There are some powerful players out there and they are resistant to change. But I do get passionate and I'm ... I have to use that. I'm usually a quiet person, but when it comes to this, yes, I'm willing to get up on stage and shout and say, come on, we've got to do something. There is a crisis.

Samar McHeileh: How did you get the, was it a federal minister on board? And is it ... Do you think that's the nuance between it's really the pressure from federal government that will make the or make all the States come in line?

Trish Mackie-Smith: Well, yes with this report that was commissioned by the federal government and all jurisdictions have to take note and in fact there is an implementation plan in place and they are ... all the States have to work on these recommendations. So yes, it's happening.

Samar McHeileh: I believe you had a ... you've gone through a couple of raising journey. Oh, you probably still are in the midst of that.

Trish Mackie-Smith: In the middle of it.

Samar McHeileh: So, you've got secured some funding from the government that you mentioned before, the government, which is handy.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Very.

Samar McHeileh: How has that journey been for you so far?

Trish Mackie-Smith: Challenging because it takes up a lot of your time and we have to continue running the business. We have to be with customers, listening to customers, running our team and doing all those things as well as pitching to investors and providing due diligence records and also doing due diligence on the investors because we've had to say no. If they don't understand, don't get what we're about, there's not that true alignment, then no way would we go forward. So yes, we're looking for investors that can provide smart money and connections and get it, get what we're doing and why.

Samar McHeileh: How do you decide how much to raise? I believe this the second time that you've raised officially?

Trish Mackie-Smith: We did a pre-seed and we're now at seed. And the way we do it is really look ahead at the milestones that we wish to achieve over the runway. Our runway's 18 months. So it was, looking at our milestones and working out how much would it cost to meet those milestones.

Samar McHeileh: And what are those milestones that you're looking to achieve with this round?

Trish Mackie-Smith: Well, we're in the midst of a very exciting partnership arrangement, we've got a heads of agreement already signed off with a partner that can bring over a thousand users a week. So we're very excited about that. And that involves an integration. So that tech that we're building, we'd like to use that to integrate with other strategic partners. So continue with that marketing expanding across Australia. So we have a detailed marketing and sales plan and also build our team to support those goals.

Samar McHeileh: How did you come up with the valuation?

Trish Mackie-Smith: That's tricky. Because really you can look at the market and see other start-ups at a similar stage and what the valuation is, benchmark that or there's formulas. There are formulas that VCs use. There's the Berkus formula, the Harvard formula. And so we've looked at that, those formulas as well. And also the milestone. So those three factors we've considered to value our company.

Samar McHeileh: And is it about the, you mentioned before, having alignment with investors, it is also willing ... what the investors are willing to value your, or accept in terms of valuation as well?

Trish Mackie-Smith: They have to see the potential and believe in us that at that we can achieve it. That those audacious goals.

Samar McHeileh: So you mentioned before, angel investors and this is what we do at scale. It's certainly, it definitely is about private capital, but it also is beyond that. And you mentioned before it's about connections and that alignment. What do you look for exactly from investors at that ... this point? What are you looking for?

Trish Mackie-Smith: We're looking for a lead investor at the moment and someone that wants to be there by our side and offering advice and guidance along the way as well as money and help us with those strategic partnerships that we're looking forward to completing. And I think if they've also been there before that will really assist us.

Samar McHeileh: What have you learned about yourself in the past year?

Trish Mackie-Smith: A lot. For me, it's been a lot of personal growth. I've been out of my comfort zone, well and truly. I've learned a hell of a lot and I've realised it's given me confidence that I can get up and speak in front of a big crowd and that I, even though I dream big, I can actually do big things. So it's given me a lot of confidence and to realise that if you believe in something strong enough it can and will happen.

Samar McHeileh: What do you do before you go to sleep?

Trish Mackie-Smith: What I do is I actually write down a list of the things that need to be done the next day, otherwise-

Samar McHeileh: A to do list.

Trish Mackie-Smith: A to do list because otherwise I can be thinking all night. So, that's one thing I've learned to do. I'll do that and then I might read a light book and that's enough for me to then drift off and have a nice sleep.

Samar McHeileh: What are you reading at the moment?

Trish Mackie-Smith: I'm actually reading a book, Some Kind Of Beautiful, it was written by a good friend of mine, Francis Whiting. She's a journalist. This is her second novel, so I'm actually reading that now and it's so nice reading the words of a friend and it's also quite funny and I'm really enjoying it.

Samar McHeileh: What is your advice to those who are wanting to become an entrepreneur?

Trish Mackie-Smith: We just realised that it's bloody hard. It's ... Especially running a start-up. It's probably the most riskiest venture you'll be involved in. A lot fail. If you do have a good idea, you've got to do your homework, you've got to do a lot of research, survey potential customers and validate that your idea will actually solve a problem, a real problem. And it's not just a nice to have because you don't want to put all your time and energy and money into something that nobody wants. So I think great if you've got a good idea, but you've got to validate that before you go further.

Samar McHeileh: Great advice. Thank you so much for joining us today Trish, it's been a pleasure.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Oh, thank you.

Samar McHeileh: On this 44 degree day in Melbourne.

Trish Mackie-Smith: I know, and I've come from Brisbane.

Samar McHeileh: It's actually hotter here, isn't it?

Trish Mackie-Smith: It's a lot hotter here, but it's been a pleasure.

Samar McHeileh: Thank you so much. Thank you.

Trish Mackie-Smith: Thank you.

Samar McHeileh: Thank you so much for listening. Don't forget to subscribe to the Pitch To Scale podcast and rate and review. I find the investors and entrepreneurs I meet so fascinating and learn so much from each and every one of them.

If you want to learn more about angel investing, Scale have their very own online education program. You can enrol to the course called Startup Invested made via our website scaleinvestors.com. Make sure you follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn.

Thanks to Buffy Gorilla for her amazing production and the Scale team who make it all possible. See you next week.